| Date: 2006-12-02 |
Username: DanUnterbrink |
Helpful: 2 of 2 |
| The birth of Jesus has three different dates according to the New Testament. Luke placed the date at 6 AD, at the census (Luke 2:1-3) and at 2 BC per the calculation of John the Baptist's arrival less thirty years (Luke 3:1 and 3:23). Matthew placed the date at the end of Herod the Great's reign, or from 9-4 BC. Obviously, there is a consistency problem with the Gospel accounts. However, most scholars come to the conclusion that Jesus was born in 9-4 BC. This dating is dependent on the "star of Bethlehem" story. The only other account of the "star of Bethlehem" comes from the Slavonic Josephus. This account placed the birth in the early years of Herod, around 25 BC. The "star of Bethlehem" may have been a Christian story, not an historical reality. This story may have had its origin in the Star Prophecy, where many Jews believed that a world ruler would come from Israel. (Josephus attributed the Star Prophecy to Vespasian.) In reality, the "star of Bethlehem" story has two possible dates. Most follow Matthew, who placed the time towards the end of Herod the Great's rule (9-4 BC). I follow the Slavonic Josephus, which dates this story about 20 years earlier, from 30-25 BC. The earlier dating has the following advantages: 1. According to Epiphanius, James, the brother of Jesus, died at the age of 96 in 62 AD. This would have yielded a birth date of 35 BC. This advanced age may be an exaggeration as the same church historian stated that James died a virgin. According to Paul, James was a married man. So, it is very possible that 96 years old is a slight stretch. However, James was probably a very old man at his death (80-96?). The birth of Jesus in 30-25 BC fits in quite nicely with James' age. 2. The Slavonic Josephus placed the beginning of John the Baptist's ministry at 6 AD, during the reign of Archelaus. This John was very fiery, the same as in the Gospels. However, the Slavonic version stated that John preached a nationalism identical to Judas the Galilean. The placement of the John passage was right before Josephus claimed that Judas the Galilean was a preacher different than all the others. Josephus also called Judas a wise man and a clever rabbi. (Josephus never said a word about Jesus!) 3. If Judas the Galilean was born about 25 BC, then he would have been 30 years old at the census uprising (6 AD and the introduction of John). At least, the earlier scenario about Jesus' (Judas the Galilean's) birth fits the other facts (James, John the Baptist and the age 30).
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| Date: 2006-12-03 |
Username: drj |
Helpful: 1 of 1 |
| Hi Dan. Very interesting stuff. I tend to accept Matthew's date that Jesus was born when Herod was still alive, giving us a date prior to 4 BC. The star story, as noted above, is unreliable, and the John the Baptist dating is subject to when Tiberius reigned as co-regent or independently. I do agree with Slavonic Josephus on the dating of John, whom I believe was born about 10 B.C., making him a feistey teen in 6 AD, and making Jesus a few years his junior. The problem with dating Jesus to 30 BC is that it makes him a very old man by the time Pilate and Caiaphas come along. And the Jesus we know from the gospels seems too spry for a 60 year old. |
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| Date: 2006-12-25 |
Username: inca |
Helpful: 0 of 3 |
| People should investigate TOTAL (rather than partial) ECLIPSE near Herod's death, that was around 1 or 2 B.C. The star behaved more like a UFO. God wouldn't send a star which goes from East to Jerusalem where it was Christ's main enemy, Herod and then the star stops there and then starts again leading the astrologers to Bethelem where the account says there was no baby no more living among animals but a BOY living in a HOUSE with his mother. Joseph is not even mentioned. The problem is people have thought Mathew and Luke are describing the same event. That UFO/star seems to be sent by God's enemy who wanted Herod to identify baby whereabouts. God needed to warn the astrologers not to get back to Herod. Herod himself did his calculations and not killed all baby-borns but specially the ones til 2 years old. That means the trip of the "star" took 2 years from East to Jerusalem and then standing STILL upon the kid's house with his mom. No supernova, no planets alignment, no Halley comet but a Satanic holographic sign to deceive astrologers and wanr Herod. In saying so I'm saying Christ was born about 2 B.C and died about 33 of our era. |
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| Date: 2007-04-12 |
Username: minas |
Helpful: 3 of 3 |
| More than anything, the story about the star reveals the Matthew's ignorance of astronomy. Most people know that sailors "follow" the stars to find their way home if the night finds them in the open sea, but the stars only provide a sense of direction. It is not that sailors recognize the star that sits above their home port. Even if there was an astronomical phenomenon, the magi would be unable to follow it to find a town, let alone a barn. Now, if there was a barn pointing star, I am sure many other people would have noticed and some of them should have written something.
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| Date: 2007-04-13 |
Username: rabbiray1 |
Helpful: 1 of 4 |
| Sometimes this star is called the malka-megan(King Star) but there is nothing written about it so there is no information to be gotten on the subject of the King Star |
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| Date: 2007-05-14 |
Username: rabbiray1 |
Helpful: 2 of 3 |
| why marvel? Look it up for yourself and don't count on others to do your work for you |
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| Date: 2007-10-11 |
Username: anorak |
Helpful: 3 of 5 |
| The Star of Bethlehem (which translates to "House of Bread"...and also represents the constelation Virgo) is actually the star Sirius...the brightest star in the sky. On December 22, 23, 24 the SUN actually stops moving towards the southern hemisphere (ie. it rises at the same degree for THREE days). On December 25th, Sirius and the three stars of Orion's belt ("the Three Kings") line up at the exact point where the SUN rises one degree to the NORTH...signifying that the days will be getting longer. The Ancients feared the dark. The Egyptian god of the dark was called Set...as in Sun "Set". This is also the birth sequence of Mithra, Horus (as in "hours") and many other Saviour deities. There were no Magi's (funny, the bible never says that there was three anyway...so then where did it come from?)
The Bible is THREE things: Sex, Stars, and 'Shrooms. Look it up. |
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| Date: 2008-04-04 |
Username: Rayman |
Helpful: 2 of 2 |
| What about the astronomical event on April 17, six B.C. when Jupiter and our Moon eclipsed, creating the appearance of a bright star and a Babylon belief that a great king is to be born. That "star" began the journey for the Babylon magi (Persian priests). The documentary "Mystery of the Three Kings" and other credible sources claim this astronomical event to be 100%factual. To date, this event makes more sense than any other resource I have read and/or heard of. Furthmore, six B.C. adds up to a more definitive timeline for supporting the events following throughout Jesus' life. I disagree with Minas' comments on 2007-04-12. In 4-6 B.C., devoting your entire life's efforts (career) 24/7 was probably commonplace. I believe if the Babylon magi focused their efforts on something (as scholars with gifted intelligence), they could of found a missing "mite" buried below sea level in that barn you mentioned, if they were searching for it. To find a specific boy in Judea with an estimated birth date was probably not an easy task, but achievable. With a determination possessing the strength, courage, mindset and finances to support a journey that took several months one-way with unknown conditions...trust me, they found him! Peace ;-) |
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| Date: 2008-04-15 |
Username: anorak |
Helpful: 3 of 4 |
| If I remember correctly there was also an alignment of Mars and Venus in the year 7 BCE. I forget the exact date. FYI, Venus was also called the Morning Star since it rose just before the sun. It was also called the "Light Bringer" or Lucifer. The whole three kings and the star in the East tale was not exclusive to Christianity. Other saviour deities had the same life beginings, so the 6 BCE (or 7 BCE fort hat matter) had no real significance, other than it was the begining of the Age of Pisces (Jesus is the "Fisher-of-Men.") Rayman, I find it difficult to trust you that anybody found Jesus since he did not exist. There was no HISTORICAL data of him. Only a few people did mention something called the Cristos (The Anointed...as in sprinkled with holy oil) not JESUS. A lot of people say that Josephus was the most credible source.....but he stole a lot of his "first hand knowledge" from other texts. If you really want your noodle baked, Babylon used to called Sumer. Go find some of the ancient Sumerian texts and read all about the Annunaki. |
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| Date: 2009-12-04 |
Username: wpjo |
Helpful: 0 of 0 |
| I THINK ONE HAS TO CONSIDER THIS IN A COMPLETELY OTHER WAY
- The Greek already found out that star coordinates are not fixed, or stated otherwise, that the north pole is not always pointing to the same star
- Hipparchus, in 130 BC was the first to get this theorized and he estimated that the shift in the position of Spica was more than 1° a century. (actually it is 1° per 72 years).
- In the year -3 (by not admitting the year 'zero') or 2 BC (by admitting the year 'zero', Spica had thus to slip thru the zodiac equator
- And not only slip through, but slipping through it in the VERY East. This means that Spica could be observed rising in the sky at the very East at the spring equinox only.
- This fact was awaited for, and thus in some way OBSERVES by the Greek and the Middle-East cultures but NOT in other cultures where nobody realised that the star coordinates were shifting with time.
- Spica is in Arabic 'Al-Zimach' and in Hebrew 'Tsemech'. This means 'the branch' and the bible uses this expression only four times and every time it means 'the branch from which shall sprout the Machiah'.
This, together with the very remarkable series of conjunctions in the preceeding years, may very well have inspired our Magi.
They followed the direction indicated by Spica, i.e., they did not go East (for the star moves the whole night long), but to the opposite direction ! They went WEST for Spica = Al Zimach = Tsemech = the branch indicates the temple of Yahweh, i.e. Jerusalem.
And when they Jerusalem, they saw they star in the SSW direction which is the direction of Bethlehem. Seen from Jerusalem. And then they followed they star untiill it halted, i.e. disappeared at dawn.
The hole story of Mathew makes thus perfect sense if one is reading it reminding the cultural and astronomical background of that time.
Regards, wpjo
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| Date: 2009-12-07 |
Username: Calum |
Helpful: 0 of 1 |
| Egyptian priests were always watching for Sirius to reappear after a 70 day period of being out of sight each year. More importantly they watched for the beginning of each new Sothic Cycle which lasted for about 1,460 years.
Sirius was seen as the home of HR (Greek Horus but aka IOSA or Jesus).
For a full study of this subject and details of alignments found in Egyptian Temples and tombs you need to read THE EGYPT CODE by ROBERT BAUVAL.
Each king of Egypt was believed to be the Living Jesus/Iosa, and when a new reign coincided with the beginning of the Sothic Cycle, this was a really big event.
It happened when Ymn Twt Ankh came to the throne in 1321BCE which may well be the reason that his tomb out of the many in the Valley of the Kings was intact. Priests would have been watching eagerly for the return of Sirius as early as the reign of Akhenaten.
The next Sothic Cycle began in 139CE, and once again priests would have been scanning the heavens from the middle of the 1st century, watching each year for Sirius rising to get closer and closer to the Solstice. |
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| Date: 2010-03-15 |
Username: wpjo |
Helpful: 0 of 0 |
| The Gospel talks about a STAR, and not about a conjunction. I do eventually admit the star to be a planet (for planets were considered to be 'moving stars') but surely not a conjunction. A conjunction is an alignment and such an event is exceptional to some degree, but surely not at all something unknown to the astronomers of that time. And therefore, anyone who observed the sky in the Middle-East --where stars were particularly well observed and RECORDED for over 1000 years-- was 100% aware of the difference between star and conjunction. The second point is that a conjunction will not last that long that they first will observe, prepare their trip, travel and finally, once in Jerusalem, still will be visible in the sky to opint out the very direction to be followed.
All explanations should point out why : -1- The star was observed in the East, -2- the star was rising, -3- the star refers to the 'King of the Jews', -4- the star was observed in the Iran/Iraq and nowhere else, -5- the star lasted long enough to undertake their long travel and be still visible once they arrived in Jerusalem, -6- why the star was seen rising in the East but made the magi traveled to the West to Jerusalem and nowhere else.
Explaining the story without dealing with these questions means in fact one doesn't admit Mathews story. I don't mind one doe, but intellectual integrity requires at least one should point out the differences between Mathews story and his own point of view.
And finally, the event has to match a plausible date for the birth of Jesus. The webpage http ://askelm.com/star/star007.htm advances very plausible reasons that Jesus was born on September 11th, 3 BC (Gregorian calendar, no year "zero" i.e. the first year before 1 AD was 1 BC).
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