| Date: 2006-05-23 |
Username: drj |
Helpful: 6 of 6 |
| Tekton can be translated in many ways, as noted in this article. You have to ask yourself, given what we know about Jesus' education and his ability to hob nob with the wealthy (given the social mores of the time, which did not permit interaction between classes), is it likely that his father was a day laborer or a builder? |
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| Date: 2006-10-22 |
Username: Kassidy |
Helpful: 2 of 2 |
| Hi drj,
Wanted to say I'm finding your site very interesting, and it has had me looking more in depth in to some of these questions.
One thing that I did want to say about this article is that, although it is a worthy point to note that naggar can be translated as scholar, I would still consider tektovus the better fitted translation, if only from the exclamation of surprise that the people show toward him having this knowledge and being able to perform the acts he did.
Were Jesus or Joseph scholars, it would be less surprising a fact. In my opinion at least. Although you do raise a good point about the even at the temple. Again the same reason for surprise could apply, but at the same time merely from his young age, even if raised by a scholar, it would be a remarkable detail that he have such a great understanding.
I shall keep reading, it is rather interesting, and encouraging me to study more. Cheers.
-Kassidy |
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| Date: 2006-10-22 |
Username: drj |
Helpful: 0 of 0 |
| Hi Kassidy. Thanks for your comment. The whole point of the site is to have people look more closely at some fundamental assumptions. |
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| Date: 2006-10-31 |
Username: PUGLIA |
Helpful: 2 of 3 |
| Jesus came from the blood line of the tribe of Juda. The same family tree that King Solomon, King David, ect.. ect.. Joseph, the father, obviously knew of his family history as well as Jesus's mother Mary. Although this does not prove them scholars they would surely have known their family history. With such a fantastic and historic blood line it is probable that they, while perhaps not considered noble or scholars themselves, would have such knowledge. The one thing we must remember is that Jesus is the Son of God. His understanding of Gods will and Law at such a young age would have been very amazing. Though very reasonable when you look back through his families blood line. |
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| Date: 2007-03-27 |
Username: summitcitybiz |
Helpful: 1 of 1 |
| As a carpenter, Joseph is assumed to be a mild mannered meager servant. However as a craftsman as the definition in Greek terms allows; Joseph was more than a man who worked in the woodworking arena. I believe (and i step out on my own belief) that Joseph (the earthly father of the Son of God) was not a mere carpenter. He was a craftsman of the highest degree. Not to belittle the craftsmen in the area of wood; they are very important in everyday living; yet I do believe the craftsman we are referring to was probably a craftsman of gold or the material mfkst. What say you... |
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| Date: 2007-04-04 |
Username: FatherSilence |
Helpful: 0 of 1 |
| Joseph may indeed a master builder; I won't quibble over the translation of tecton, but isn't it a little elitist to assume a carpenter or carpenter's son could not also be a scholar? Hillel was a woodchopper. While many of the sages who produced the Talmud came from scholarly backgrounds, the list also includes:
Abba Chilkiyah = field laborer
Abba Oshiya = launderer
Rabbi Yosi b. Chalafta = tanner
Rabbi Yochanan = shoemaker
Rabbi Yehoshua b. Chananiah = blacksmith
Rabbi Abba b. Zavina = tailor
I would think a carpenter in Roman Judea probably made a pretty good living. He would work with expensive metal tools and, if he's going to build a successful table, for instance, would use a square, a plumb and might even need to employ a compass as well. He could probably afford an education for himself and his sons.
History is full of people from obscure backgrounds who somehow managed to educate themselves. Why couldn't Joseph (or Jesus) have been among them?
Is it possible Dr. Gardner's research is unduly influenced by a negative personal attitude toward working people?
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| Date: 2007-05-28 |
Username: cskale |
Helpful: 0 of 0 |
| Joseph was a nobleman and a scholar too. He had great caliber and supreme understanding and fully understood God's plan of salvation.
According to me he represents JOSEPH of O.T.
Don't believe me? Just read Matthew 1:15-16. What is the name of Mary's father-in-law? This is not coincidence. |
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| Date: 2007-06-26 |
Username: minas |
Helpful: 2 of 2 |
| The noun tekton when used to descirbe the occupation of an individual means builder. Although the corresponding verb tektaino means create skillfully, the noun can describe both the skilled and unskilled builder. It can also mean other kinds of craftsman.
In other contexts can mean slightly different things. If it refers to a god it means creator with an emphasis on the artfulness implied.
When it refers to a poet it means ... poet! The word poet itself is from the verb poio which means make/create. So poet means maker, although rarely used with this meaning. One exception is in the greek text of the Nicean creed where it says "patera pantokratora poiiti [poet] oyranoy kai gis..." "...Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth...". When one wants to say poet, one says poiitis [poet] not tekton. If it is realy clear from the context that we are refering to a poet, we might say tekton to emphasize the skillfulness that the overly modest poet does not.
Tekton cannot mean intellectual unless this intellectual is creating something because tekton really means creator.
Certainly it cannot mean contractor, simply because contractor is a modern occupation. If Joseph was higher up in the pecking order in the ancient construction industry, a perfectly good word is architekton (architect).
The word has changed meaning over the years. Throughout the preclassic, classic and byzantine times it meant builder (and occasionally other kind of craftsman), in modern greek it means exclussively freemason and the verd, while it means essentially the same, it means undermine or conspire in its most common usages.
For this I consulted several greek dictionaries ranging from Homeric (P. Lorentzatos), classic (Hofmann/Papanikolaoy and Anamitis) as well as modern (Babiniotis) |
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| Date: 2007-07-06 |
Username: summitcitybiz |
Helpful: 2 of 2 |
| I believe Joseph was a Master Craftsman. I have read from the books of Robert Ludlow who describe the Masonic folklore of the Master Craftsman Hiram Abif. This person was the craftsman that built the bowls of Solomons temple and he was the Lead Craftsman building Solomons temple. Joseph was also a Master Craftsman. The word carpenter allow us to imagine a common man, a plain worker, not a high level craftsman. This is to allows not only the kings to be apart of the kingdom but allows the common man to have some relative connection to the Prince of Peace. I have to think...why the king would want to kill such a child. Why would he go out and kill all the first born during this period if it were not true that the one he wanted to destroy was in fact of royalty or of significant position in the land. hmmm what do you think? |
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| Date: 2007-07-09 |
Username: gkhaas |
Helpful: 1 of 1 |
| What do I think? I think that, if Joseph was of royalty or of significant position, Herod would have been a lot more targeted in his task. These people kept good genealogical records -- Herod just killed all the children below a certain age in the entire community, as though he had no CLUE which one was the problem. |
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| Date: 2007-07-09 |
Username: rabbiray1 |
Helpful: 2 of 3 |
| Joseph the Nazarine was of the Essenes.
The Essenes used the skills of the tekton's just like Mason's (today) use the skills of the construction workers.
The Essenes became The Templars, the Templars became Masons and Free Masons of Today. |
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| Date: 2007-07-10 |
Username: gkhaas |
Helpful: 2 of 2 |
| RabbiRay -- don't just drop "facts" on us; give us sources. |
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| Date: 2007-07-13 |
Username: rabbiray1 |
Helpful: 1 of 3 |
| gkhaas:
Check your Hebrew and Greek for this don't relie on other people to give you everything.
If you cehck things out for yourself you will understand it better! |
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| Date: 2007-07-24 |
Username: gkhaas |
Helpful: 2 of 2 |
| A vague mention of a language is not a source, rabbiray1.
A book (preferably some reference within the book to enable us to FIND what the deuce you are talking about), a website -- yes, but not just "Check your Hebrew and Greek". WHO says Joseph "the Nazarine" was an Essene? WHO says the Essenes used the skills of the tektons? W HO says the Essenes became the Templars? |
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| Date: 2007-09-28 |
Username: rambux |
Helpful: 2 of 2 |
| I think the WM is being a bit pedantic qubbling over the real meaning of 'teklon'. Any thesaurus can set you straight on that. As far as social status goes, someone like Joseph would have had a relatively prominent social position, given his important pratical role in his community. And like most well-to-do businessmen in a Jewish community, he would have been well-versed in jewish scripture.
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